What is a *Running W*?????.....

[dianei]

The nearest thing I can figure out is it's a not-so-nice piece of training equipment, used to take a horse down.

Googled, it comes up as sort of a trip wire used in the old cowboy movies.

[Mary Ann]

No, a running W goes between the front legs to the ankles, is leveraged off the top of the saddle, to pull the front legs out and bring the horse to it's knees. When you look at it, the ropes make a 'W.'

You're right; it's not a nice piece of training equipment, and 99.9% of the horses out there will never need such a thing. It's the .1% out there that DO need it that keeps it around.

I've only known one horse in my life that needed it, and it was justly applied. This filly was line bred Impressive, and I was there when she was born. And she's the only horse I've ever known that I'd say was truly born mean. As a baby, she'd pin her tiny sculptured ears, turn her little butt and try and kick the crap out of you. She'd bite, crowd, strike, rear, whatever. She was exquisitely beautiful, and was haltered as a weanling, yearling, and two year old in AQHA and was high point champion each year. She was gorgeous, but she was a hazard. She was owned by people who were fairly backyard but very horse savvy; they didn't cause this.

When the horse was done haltering late in her two year old year, she was taken to a trainer at a barn where I boarded. He was very smart about horses, but this one had him stumped, she was so horrid. He comes from a horsey family with a long history of champions, and worked on and off for several of the country's top trainers. He had a lot of resources to draw on when trying to figure this one out. The filly would try to kill you if you came at her with tack. So they ended up using a running W to take away her ability to fight or flee when she acted aggressively. Getting it on was quite a feat, too.

I remember very clearly when he asked the owner of the mare, "How bad do you want to ride, and how bad do you want to halter her again?" He knew that there was a chance her knees would take such a beating that she might not be able to halter anymore if she had to be brought down very many times. He used appropriate precautions by tacking her in a soft plowed field, so when she went down, it minimized the damage. But she had a lot of fight in her, and she had to be dropped a LOT before she submitted.

Yes he got the job done, and she would submit to having tack put on, but she was still horrid. Mozette was stalled next to her. There was a broom handle outside the filly's stall at all times. I was told that if for any reason I needed to go in her stall, I was to take that with me and USE IT if necessary. There was another cranky gray mare on the other side of Mozette that they called The Gray Bitch, and they called this filly The Gray Bitch From Hell.

There are many kinds of horses in the world. Most are lovely, sweet, stoic animals that just want to get along. But there are a handful that are really nasty, hardwired for aggression and violence. This was one. She got a running W, and she needed it.

[linda]

The Running "W" is a hobble on each of the front legs. Each of the hobbles is attached to a rope. The rope is run through something to keep it up next to the horse. The most simple would be a rope just tied around the midline with the ropes extending 20 feet or so behind the horse. When you pull on the ropes attached to the hobbles, you take the front legs away from the horse and the horse goes down. You also can ride a very broncy horse with this--the rider holds onto the ropes. If the horse starts to pitch, you can take their front feet away (or be selective and just take one foot out of the action.) (Do not try this at home LOL.)

It is true that this device has been used inappropriated by many people. In other hands, in very special situations, it can turn the life of a vicious horse around.

When you take away the ability of the horse to move, you become dominate over them. Sometimes, usually due to human mistakes, horses become so vicious that something like a running W will be used by highly trained individuals in a safe, padded environment, in order to spare the life of a horse. When used correctly in a safe environment, by experts, this isn't a very dangerous piece of equipment. However, when used to make a horse fall from a gallop in the movies (as used to happen many years ago) or in the wrong hands.... Unfortunately, I would suspect that this piece of equipment has been used for less-than-honorable purposes more often than as a last-ditch effort by a highly trained horseman to save the life of a horse.

Linda

[KarenN]

I had a horse years and years ago that this device was used on. It was used by a savvy trainer, and caused no harm to the horse. He was not a vicious horse per se, but he was strong and very bull headed. He could run through any and every bit, plow through fences with no thought to life or limb - his own or his riders. We took him to a vaquero that we hightly respected and he used a running W on him. It only took twice, and he was never hurt. He learned FAST though, and went on from there to become a VERY good horse, and is in fact still used today as a rodeo pickup horse. He was QH/mustang/Belgian/paint, a BIG stout horse only 15.1hh but nearly 1450 lbs at fighting weight! And interestingly enough MaryAnn, his QH blood was Impressive!

[linda]

How fun--three responses--and I obviously did not see Mary Ann's response when I posted and Karen did not see mine. The most interesting part is that we all said basically the same thing! Karen and Mary Ann gave very good examples of the appropriate use of this last-ditch piece of equipment. This is what it should be used for--and when it is used appropriately, it works.
Linda

[dianei]

Would this have any use at all to encourage more *park action* during training????

I understand the concept of *taking a horse down*, and I agree....if done, you'd better know what you're doing........

(I have no intention of doing this, just being curious)

[linda]

You must be talking about training some gaited horse breeds for the showring. I wouldn't be suprised--but in this respect they would be using it to lift the foot, rather than take it away. Again, I suspect that in proper hands, it could be a good and useful tool in this regard, but the key would once again be "proper hands".

If I were king (Mary Ann only wanted to be "Queen"), all gaited horses would have to be shown without shoes, with short heel and toe, and bareback with only a rope halter for control. And, of course, mandatory inspection by the most strict of inspectors before they could enter the ring. Excessive way of going would be penalized, not rewarded. And once everyone learned to play by the new rules, I would allow them to use flat plates (as long as their heel and toe were still short). I might even allow them to use a snaffle bit someday--as long as the reins were connected with a "break-away" to limit the amount of tension applied to the reins. Or, maybe I would just have a tensionometer with continually posting on a scoreboard of the tension applied to the reins at any one time by all competitors.... And, who knows, maybe someday I would even let them use a blanket to keep their show pants clean.....

Well, so much for the gaited breeds electing me king........
Linda

[Mary Ann]

No, you're thinking of something called developers. They're like hobbles on the front legs, and they have elastic bands like surgical tubing connected to each other that cause the top of the forearm to develop more strength. It's used to increase knee action. It's popular among saddlebred and saddleseat people.

[dianei]

So these products are not actually *running ws*???

www.ehorseequipment.com/detail.asp?id=2246

www.showstoppertack.com/Display.asp?ID=2049

[Mary Ann]

Yes, those are running Ws, but the application is one I've not seen and can't say that I like. Rather than create resistance and cause the horse to have to push against the ropes, I'd rather see cavaletti, hill work, changes in shoeing, and boots and the like to increase muscle strength and action. It seems highly unlikely that this could produce anything except artificial looking movement, much like horses whose heads are tied down with martingales.

[dianei]

Just remembering the first time I ever saw my morgan friend's show mare. She had campaigned her to national level in english country pleasure (I think). I was expecting to see some awful built up shoes on her, but they weren't......her toe was a little longer (think rules say it can't be more than 4")...and she had some sort of thin pads on....but that was it.

Wildfire told me once that show shoes are only meant to *enhance* a horse's natural action. If you have a horse that you would rate at 6 on a scale of 1-10....proper show shoes would put that horse at 7 or 8, maybe......but you couldn't expect a horse you would rate at 2 to go to a 9 with show shoes.

I suspect this gadget would give you more up and down motion, while not letting the natural forward motion shine through as much..........could be wrong, though....

This has been am interesting discussion.

[Mary Ann]

The horses that do it correctly and naturally are indeed beautiful to see. The problem lies in the horses that are forced to do something that is physically unnatural or difficult for them, or by using devices that actually inhibit natural flow and beauty. I appreciate a great saddleseat or gaited horse as much as the next guy, but I shudder to see those trussed up like Thanksgiving turkeys.

I appreciate excellence in all styles of riding and breeds of horses, but not exaggeration or force.

[Newfygirl]

Wow! I've never heard of a Running W used for more action. Looks scarey! My friend had a gorgeous Arab stallion who was a dream to ride, except for his little rearing and flipping over habit. After all kinds of medical checks on him to make sure he wasn't hurting, she hired a trainer to work with him. The trainer used the running W on the stallion and took it a step further. He took him down after a rear, then pulled him on his side. Covered him with a tarp and let him sit there for awhile. Now, I don't know how much of this is macho trainer talk or how much is true, but that horse had a whole new respect for people after that. Never reared again and went on as peaceful as can be.

I also don't like to see overly weighted or long shoes on horses to "create" more action. There is a weight limit for Arabs, but I know its always pushed. A horse that has the action naturally is so beautiful compared to the sewing machine action of an artificially enhanced horse.

[linda]

Newfygirl--that story is probably absolutely true. Those are the results that a highly trained trainer can get with that device. That is why the "running W" has been around for probably hundreds, maybe thousands of years. That device gets the attention of the horse when everything else has failed. It just isn't a play toy for all to use.

Years ago people with driving horses sometimes used running Ws as an "emergency brake" for retraining horses that had a tendency to run away when hitched up. Not my idea of fun, but, then, neither was it fun to have a horse or team run away when you were riding behind them. It is effective, no doubt about it.

We are so fortunate to live at a time that we have access to far better and more humane training techniques and can electronically access almost anyone's work in video format. Most of us will never see a running W used--and that is just fine by me.
Linda

[Newfygirl]

Yeah- I don't think I could have watched it happen. But I rode the horse after it was done and he was great to ride. It made a difference between him hurting or killing a person or himself or being a great riding horse. I think it actually saved his life. Sometimes I think drastic actions call for drastic measures.