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Post by Chrisnstar on Aug 1, 2005 12:19:32 GMT -5
A lady on an endurance list needs some good info to use regarding something she sees going on at her boarding barn... Mary Ann, others... can anyone point her to some useful info to help educate people??
ugh, makes me shudder! (please WP folks, I'm not condemming the event.... I'm sure lots of people DON'T use hock hobbles!)
chris
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Post by Mary Ann on Aug 1, 2005 12:54:55 GMT -5
Many people use such devices to force a horse into a frame. It creates a false movement, a travesty of the grace of collection. It's a shortcut, plain and simple. If she reads Podjasky, he says "A ruthlessly condensed training only leads to a general superficiality, to travesties of the movements, and to a premature unsoundness of the horse. Nature cannot be violated." - ALOIS PODHAJSKY And Susan Harris, in her book "Horse Gaits, Balance, and Movement," says "FALSE COLLECTION "The horse moves with a hollow back and lacks engagement, but his neck is arched and his head is carried at or behind the vertical. Instead of flexing at the poll, the flexion takes place farther back in the neck, causing a "broken neck" in which the poll is not the highest point of the neck. The horse may champ nervously or rigidly set his jaw, but he does not accept or reach out for it, and he evades contact with the rider's hands. Because of his short, irregular strides and lack of engagement, his circle of muscles is ineffective. He moves in false collection, snapping his front legs up but failing to engage his hindquarters or use his back to lighten the forehand. His front and hind legs may lose coordination, and he may add extra beats to the stride in the trot and canter. The horse's ability to shift his balance is severely handicapped. "This syndrome is often seen when the horse is forced into a slow or falsely collected gait without using his hindquartersand back correctly ., It' often resultswhen a trainer tries to correct an inverted horse by forcing his head and neck into a lower and more flexed position, especially through the use of severe bits or control devices like draw reins. If the hrose does not engage his hindlegs and improve the use of his back, he runs the same risk of damaging mechanism as if he were moving inverted. He fakes collection by rounding his neck, but does not accept the bit or use his circle of muscles. ... "This syndrome is more difficult to cure than the inverted horse, but the principles are the same. The horse must engage his hind end with long, regular strides and allow his back and neck to relax and lengthen. He must learn to accept the bit and the rider's seat and legs and reach out willingly to the bit in respones to the rider's aids. The rider must ride in balance and free the horses's back to round up; he needs effective leg aids and especially tactful and educated hands to restore the horses's confidence in the bit and reestablish the use of his ring of muscles. he must be especially aware of the horse's use of his back and hind legs in rhythm, and must not be taken in by fake head carriage." This is a horse that's not collected; he's merely going slow. Horses that require hock hobbles are almost always red letter candidates for chiropractic, because they can't get their heads down because their backs are stuck, and the trainer in desperation reaches for devices to force the frame. Any trainer that puts hock hobbles on a horse falls greatly in my esteem, and if someone put them on a horse of mine, they'd be fired on the spot. It's a torture device for 99% of the horses wearing them. Imagine if I commanded you to do a backbend, and put your palms on the floor. Let's say you told me you're not that flexible, so I tied you that way. Ghastly, ghastly.  I can refer her to more printed work if she needs it. Susan Harris is the author of all the US Pony Club manuals, and writes on biomechanics for all breeds and disciplines. And if you study, you'll find that pure movement is pure movement, whether it's the elastic reach of the dressage horse or the properly coiled collection of the WP horse. I kinda got on a soapbox, didn't I?  |
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Post by Trailpal on Aug 1, 2005 15:05:14 GMT -5
MaryAnn -
could you explain "the circle of muscles"? I used to get a magazine for combined training (maybe it was Dressage and CT?) that had a wonderful explanation, but I can't remember enough of the details. When I was really active with young horses (or rehabbing horses), I often referred to that concept and used it in figureing out what we needed to do to get the horse moving right. Or maybe you know a good webpage that explains it?
Thanks,
Rosalie
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Post by Mary Ann on Aug 1, 2005 15:58:12 GMT -5
Rosalie, I'd like to refer you to Susan Harris's book again. It's the only book I ever require of my students. It's highly readable, and well illustrated with great drawings. She's also the person who did "The Visible Horse" video and demonstrations. You could also go to nicholnl.wcp.muohio.edu/DingosBreakfastClub/BioMech/BioMechelastic.htmlThe explanation is pretty good, but not as clear and a bit more complex than Susan makes it. Also, Dr. Deb Bennett's books on conformation are good sources. Personally, having some direct and indirect dealings with both, I'd rather give Susan Harris my money. Dr. Bennett is *abrasive,* to say the least. And Susan Harris is as classy a lady and horseman as you can get. |
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Post by Trailpal on Aug 1, 2005 16:02:23 GMT -5
Cool! Thanks!
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Post by Newfygirl on Aug 1, 2005 16:09:33 GMT -5
Sooo many people use hock hobbles. Can you imagine having your mouth jerked every time you took a step. Oh, I just think they are awful. I actually used them - one time. I watched how they worked and never used them again. They are a short cut, plain and simple. The trainer/rider is trying to get the correct look, but without the correct movement. You can always tell a hock hobbled horse. I absolutely think they are cruel. They are not allowed at shows in the warm up arena- at Arab shows anyway - I'm not sure about the other breeds. Check out the area near the hocks on some show horses - you may see some suspicious white hair stripes on each hock from where the hock hobbles were placed. Unfortunately, this is the least of the problems caused by hock hobbles. I am not a purist - I believe that martingales, draw reins etc have their place - but I am a big advocate of not relying on gimmicks to create a look.
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Post by Littljoe on Aug 1, 2005 19:15:43 GMT -5
You get on your soapbox as often as you can, MaryAnn! Such "training methods" are cruelty personified. Horrible, horrible, horrible.
--LJ
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Post by cynthia on Aug 1, 2005 22:33:19 GMT -5
I have never seen hock hobbles used, but I have seen horses that have them used on them.  I was going to send Chippie to a friend to get 30 to 60 days on her to get her started for me. I'm not as agile and don't want to get bucked off should she decide to do so. I was all set to send her, until I was told that he started horses in a bit, not a side pull or bosal and would tie her head to her tail and leave her in the round pen so that she would learn to give. : ( Then his wife mentioned how hock hobbles really helped a horse that he was training. She is a really nice person with absolutely no horse background or knowledge. She doesn't know better. Guess where Chippie is. In our pasture. DH said that he would help me with her and get her started so that I can finish her all in good time. I was so disappointed and disillusioned. I couldn't imagine that being done to my Chipster. Eddie & Chippie at the District 4-H Show  |
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Post by James on Jun 18, 2017 23:59:57 GMT -5
Wow, I would have to agree with you if you had a clue. Hock hobbles are used on horses that have a clue. First off a person must have taught them collection. Secondly a person does not crank the horses nose to the ground with them. It is a process, just like anything else pertaining to horse training. I'm sorry if people have had a bad experience with this method through a trainer. My advice... Do your homework. Educate yourself. Then drop by the trainer's barn unannounced. After all he works for you.
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