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Post by wildfire on Feb 24, 2005 12:06:57 GMT -5
Mrs. WF like they were made for her! Thank You very much!  |
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Post by Chrisnstar on Feb 24, 2005 12:59:48 GMT -5
Cool. Mrs. WF must be pretty tiney, a Wifette!
I'm glad they work for her. No point in them gathering dust here.
chris
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Post by noblesseoblige on Feb 24, 2005 18:18:13 GMT -5
I quoted your gun and cop quite to my cop friend after we had our cars broken into the third time and we could not get a cop out for 2 days to make a report (!).
That was 3 weeks ago.......I have not heard from her since.
Oh, no don't feel sorry for me, it is not a loss but a liberation.......
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Post by wildfire on Feb 24, 2005 19:52:29 GMT -5
"Call the cops, and order a pizza: want to bet which arrives first?"
Despite what many may think, I am NOT anti-cop!
I do believe too much power, and in many cases too much FAITH, is blindly given to OUR public “servants”. (Since when is the “SERVANT” suppose to have more power than the master?)
But facts don’t change, just because they sound bad.
The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled over and over, that the police owe protection to no individual.
That of course means that each citizen has to be able to protect themselves.
I am glad that law enforcement is the safest job in America.
Stay Armed, Stay Safe!
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Post by noblesseoblige on Feb 24, 2005 23:58:23 GMT -5
agree with you 100%!
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Post by Sheryl on Feb 25, 2005 0:06:05 GMT -5
I would like to make a comment on this. My experience with the police was not like this at all - they were very quick to respond and very professional. I agree that we all need to be responsible for ourselves, in all aspects of our lives, but I take issue with the implication that the police somehow are not dedicated to their duty and protecting the public. I have a friend who is a Seattle police officer and I just dont share the view that they have the safest job in the nation.
In the two areas I have lived (western Washington and southern Germany) the cops were very good. The Seattle police were creamed during the big WTO riots a few years back, but that is only because they weren't expecting such a number of imported trouble makers. They let protesters protest (free country and all) and then it got out of control. My husband (at that time boyfriend) had an apartment downtown at that time, so he had a birdseye view and called in the live action reports to me - "they are teargassing the street". It was pretty incredible, but I dont think that the quality of the officers was the issue. A few years later, we happened to be in downtown Munich when the WTO was meeting. The police just shut down the downtown core city (Marienplatz area). There were no protests and no riots, but Germany is not "as free" as the usa. Different system , but I feel that the police have been excellent where I have lived.
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Post by wildfire on Feb 25, 2005 12:16:49 GMT -5
points to my post.
And I fear that by my clearly presenting my position and the factual basis for my position you may be offended. When I address what you have been lead to believe, you may take what I say as a personal affront.
If you choose to read further, please remember I am NOT attacking you for your beliefs.
I am merely addressing your beliefs, so you may more clearly address what you believe, not just the PR you have heard.
“My experience with the police was not like this at all - they were very quick to respond and very professional.” I’m GLAD! I pray you never have a NEED to rely on the cops! I pray that your life is trouble and criminal free! (Have you ever waited on a vet for an emergency? When you are THERE and you can SEE what is HAPPENING, but can do nothing? Minutes seem like an eternity. The same is true with a criminal encounter.)
“I take issue with the implication that the police somehow are not dedicated to their duty and protecting the public.”<br>The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect
individuals. In Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: `[C]ourts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and NOT TO INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY.' (Emphasis added)
This means they have NO DUTY to protect YOU.
You mentioned the WTO riots, but remember the Rodney King Riots in LA?
What businesses were NOT looted and burned?
The ones protected by the police, or the ones where the (Korean) owners were on the roofs armed with “assault weapons”? (That’s right, the police left the city to the mobs, and the ARMED individuals were the ONLY ones protected.)
Why do you feel that the police should be MORE dedicated to your safety and protection than you are? As with ANY conscientious employee, as a rule, they do their job. As fellow human beings, most would do to help what they can, the same as you or I would do.
But think about this: Have you ever heard someone say “If there is any trouble, I’ll call 9-1-1!”? Of course you have! I’ve heard it; you’ve probably said it yourself.
Former Florida Attorney General Jim Smith told Florida legislators that police responded
to only 200,000 of 700,000 calls for help to Dade County authorities. That means 500,000 calls for help went UNANSWERED to the 200,000 that WERE answered. That’s two and a half time more went UNANSWERED than were ANSWERED. Of course, that is only one county in these United States. (Does that mean the 500,000 callers whose calls for help went unanswered were not real or serious to them? The cops were still a “no-show” but THEY, the callers, were THERE.)
The United States Department of Justice found that, in 1989, there were 168,881 crimes of violence for which police had not responded within 1 hour. (Pizza Hut: 30 minutes or it’s free!)
75% of protective/restraining orders are violated and police often won't enforce them unless they witness the violation. (Ellen Sorokin, “Anti-stalking laws usually are unable to protect targets.” Washington Times, April 16, 2000)
95% of the time police arrive too late to prevent a crime or arrest the suspect. (Susan Bahr, “911 - hello? Hellooooo?”, America's Network 103, April 1, 1999)
This should be obvious. How many times if someone is being robbed, will they say “Excuse me Mr. Robber, May I make a quick phone call? I can? Thanks!” The cops are seldom called until AFTER the bad guys have left. Criminals, as a rule, go to great lengths to do their criminal acts in the ABSENCE of the cops.
“I have a friend who is a Seattle police officer and I just dont share the view that they have the safest job in the nation.”<br>
What do you base your feeling on?
The vast majority of law enforcement officers retire without EVER using, most don’t even draw, their gun in the line of duty. (I didn’t while a deputy, my dad didn’t in his 25 years as a deputy.)
Fewer law enforcement officers (LEOs) are killed NATIONWIDE in the line of duty, than taxi cab drivers killed in New York City. (The number of police officers killed in the line of duty was 134 officers in 1973. This decreases to 93 in 1977 and then slightly increases again in 1979 to 106 officers killed. After 1980 there was a steady decrease to 42 in 1999, after which it increases to 70 in 2001. It decreases to 56 in 2002.)
Most criminal encounters with civilians, are initiated by the criminal, at a time when the civilian lest expects it, LEOs aren’t around, and the civilian is the most vulnerable.
As a Rule; Criminals go to great lengths to commit their crimes away from the presents and view of LEOs. 99.9% of LEO encounters with criminals, the LEO initiates. (Dispatched to the scene, turned on the blue lights, saw something suspicious, etc.)
When a crime happens and the LEOs are called and they respond.
They are seldom called before the criminal has left the crime scene. (Remember: “Uh, pardon me Mr. Robber, do you mind if I make a quick phone call? No? Thanks!”)
If something “Doesn’t look right”, in most cases, the LEO can quickly call for backup.
When the LEO calls for backup; Big men with sticks, pepper spray, tasers, high-capacity sidearms, shotguns, and assault weapons, wearing bullet resistant vests, show up IN A HURRY!
All jobs carry some degree of danger.
I worked throwing metal into a shredder. That was dangerous!
Ever hear of a convenience store being robbed? A gas station? A liquor store? A bank?
A police station?
Thankfully in Law Enforcement the danger of the real world is taken seriously, and measures are taken to minimize the risks to the officer. This accounts in a big part for the low number of deaths in the line of duty. (Yes even one death is tragic.)
I’ve ridden many many hours with no NEED for a helmet.
All it takes is one time NEEDING it, and you will always remember its importance.
I do not view LEO’s as my protection, I view LEO’s as another PART of my overall protection.
GLHR!
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Post by noblesseoblige on Feb 25, 2005 15:23:54 GMT -5
I am not randomly ragging on cops, I can only go by my own experience. Cops are people like everybody else, but I have seen more bad cops then good cops, sadly.
I don't know if this has sometyhing to do with the area I live in. I was told one time, they are getting sick of all the problerm with the criminal element, busting them, booking them and seeing them on the steet two days later doing what they got busted for to begin with.
Germany is a totally different story, cops really used to be your 'Freund und Helfer' although it is changing a lot now due to the very high unemplyment, the influx of criminals coming in from the eastern countries and the social safety net that has all but dissapeared.
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Post by Sheryl on Feb 25, 2005 23:17:00 GMT -5
Well, I since this isn't a subject that I have researched, I have no comments on the facts and figures. I guess this isn't a topic I have much interest in, but I have personally been involved with the police responding to a situation 5 times over a period of about 15 years. There were a variety of circumstances and settings, but in each case the police where there very fast and handled the situation professionally.
I never said that the police should be more dedicated to my safety then I should be. You are putting words in my mouth and I don't really know your motive for that. I value personal responsibility very highly, but I also believe in the rule of law and the justice system. It isn't perfect, and bad things do happen but my personal experience is that police are responsive and dedicated. It is ridiculous to think that they can prevent every crime or be on the scene before a crime happens and I never made that statement.
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Post by noblesseoblige on Feb 26, 2005 21:21:17 GMT -5
that your experience with our police force has been largely a positive one.
Having a narc for a friend for 5 years perhaps gives me too much inside information.
All I can say is, "Please, God protect us from those that are paid to protect us"
However agree or disagree, there is never a reason to get harsh or feisty - this is the internet, for goodness sake. When all is said and done it gets filed away under "who cares".
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