How do you know when it's time?

[Cally]

Two years ago, I spent lots of time and effort trying to find a "rescue" mastiff. I got in touch with what SOUNDED like a really responsible breeder. We met them in Arkansas to pick up Rainey. And realized they were BYB. They had a decal on the side of their van "Dogs R Us". Apparently, they had a LARGE business with every type of dog imaginable. Then each individual breed had it's own "business" to sound reputable. Anyway. . .we were told Rainey was 4. She is obviously much, much older than that. When we got her, we spent hundreds of dollars trying to get an awful infection cleared up.

Anyway. . .it's been two years. Rainey does not get around very well-she obviously has some serious problems with her hips. If she's laying down for a period of time, she has a really difficult time getting up. Once she gets up, she walks *very* stiffly with her hind legs. We took her to the vet, who said we should give her aspirin and MSM/gluc. That worked very well for the pain, but. . .she threw up constantly and always acted very sad and sick. We took her off of both, and now she's back to being sore and stiff.

It's really hard to watch her trying to get around. Our vet is not much help at all-he says to decide on the better of the two evils-throwing up or pain. Surely there's got to be another option.

Lately, she's just been in a lot of pain, it looks like, and she seems really depressed (if dogs can seem depressed!). She spends ALL of her time laying down, and rarely moves unless we force her to. She still LOVES her food though! LOL!

I just don't know what to do.

Of course, now after I've typed all of this out, she comes trotting down the hall to see me. Sure, she just wanted to go outside to pee, but. . .

Ugh. . .any ideas? How do you know when it's time to let them go?

[Cally]

Oh! Another thing I forgot. . .lately, she hasn't been holding her weight very well. She eats every last ounce of food given to her, and she always stayed nice and fat on it. But lately, she's started looking gaunt and sunken in. We're increasing her food, but I don't understand why suddenly she isn't maintainin weight on it.

[Mary Ann]

Erika, I don't know much about dogs; hopefully those more knowledgeable can be of some help. My first thought is acupuncture, but what do I know? I'm just so sorry you're facing such sad decisions. It really sucks.

(((((HUGS)))))

[Deleted]

Try an asprin coated with malox. It's called "Ascriptin" Not positive thats the correct spelling but I had a dog on that for years. Surgery not really an option for her. Her stomach held up til the end. I would break down the other meds....con, glu, and msm into individual doses and see if it is one or all that give her an upset tummy. But I'm laying odds on the asprin not the others.

I'm guessing you're not sure whats wrong with her hips? ever had them exrayed? Does she have HD? If it's just in one hip, or one is much worse then the other then doing just one can give her a ton of comfort.

Also if that is a recent photo of Rainey then you can put her on a diet and that would really help her as well. She's a bit on the uuuhhh *ehem* chunky side Keeping her at her optimum weight is essential at this point.

Keeping large dogs comfy is hard a lot of the time. She is a big, beautiful girl. ;D

[Chrisnstar]

Oh dear, ERika. This is always a hard one. And it does seem that they know what we are thinking. I had an ANCIENT GSD. She was 15 1/2 when we finally put her down. She had seizures during the day and would just topple over. Little balls of poop just rolled out her butt. She was blind, deaf and had a very difficult time getting up and down.

It seemed that every time I'd decide that this was the day to make the final trip to the vet, she'd rally and act like a pup again.

Finally, she didn't rally. It was time. Good luck in whatever you decide. You'll have support here.

chris

[Cally]

Lil Dot-Ascripten is what we were using. I just call it aspiring because it's easier to spell! LOL! It might be the MSM/gluc that's causing the stomach upset. I'll try just the ascripten and see what happens. As far as the photo. . .I guess it does look deceiving! LOL! I see our good 'ol Rainey, but it does look like she's a fatty. Actually, she's just got LOTS of skin-she's like an old hound dog, she has skin flopping everywhere. In between her back legs, she has a BUNCH of flappy skin. She's actually pretty thin, which is part of our current problem. You can see her ribs, and her "flanks" are sunken in. She's not gaunt, but she's definitely lost weight in the last couple of months. We don't know what the problem is. . .we haven't had her x-rayed. The vet said it would be about $200 for x-rays alone, plus more $$$$ for a diagnosis, then treatment. Have I mentioned I *really* need a new vet? He said that as old as she is, anything we could do for her would be short term, hence the reason he had us put her on the pain meds.

Mary Ann-I'm hoping that the chiro can look at both Rainey and Bozo next time he comes around. I've never been able to locate an accupuncture person around here. I know my human chiro does some, or has someone that does it. Can human accus do dogs?

Chris-Thank you. I've never been in a position where I had to ask myself before. We've put two animals down-a cat that was 19, deaf and blind, had a stroke. We woke up one morning and all she could do was walk in tiny circles. Our 13 year old yellow lab suddenly started dragging her back legs around-she had a disk slip and severe her spinal cord. Both of them were obvious what we needed to do. . .Rainey is a much harder case (

[DorothyB]

She seems to be in similar shape to my 9 yr old lab cross. I'm not really familiar with mastiffs. Are her front shoulders much more muscular than they used to be? Angel was using her front end a lot to avoid pain in the rear. Although I wasn't aware of it, once it was pointed out I could see how much more muscular her front had gotten.

Getting X-Rays for a diagnosis on an older, large adult dog is quite expensive.

Angel is now on Deramaxx and Cosequin and is doing much, much better. You might want to talk with your vet about trying the Deramaxx for a month to see if it helps.

[Cally]

Thank you Dorothy! Yea. . .a 160lb dog's x-rays are definitely high.

I haven't noticed her front end getting more muscular, but I'll definitely keep an eye out.

What is the Deramaxx? Is it a shot, or a pill, or. . .?

Thank you.

[Newfygirl]

I'm going through a very similar crisis right now. We have a 12 year old German Shepherd who has arthritis in his spine and his back legs. He has trouble getting up sometimes too. He eats well, but he has lost a lot of muscle in his hindquarters. He seems relatively pain free most of the time, but I can see the weakness in his back legs. He tries to play with our Newfoundland, and does pretty well for awhile, but then his legs give out and he has to stop. I don't know...Some days are better than others. I'll keep you and your beautiful mastiff in my prayers. She's a gorgeous dog - just look at that face!

[Marci]

I just went with this with my old girl Tabu.
Her appitite wasn't up to par and I spoiled her, she got chicken and steak the last week. She slept a lot too, but then if its not age perhaps Rainey won't.
It was the look in Tabu's eyes, they looked dead-when she thought I wasn't looking.
When the quality of life got so bad that she wasn't enjoying it anymore it was time.
But it was a real stuggle for me, from Septemeber until December she would rally and come back but each time she was a bit more diminished. She was slipping further and further into the other side. When she started getting senile and I had to go outside and watch her so that she would know which way home was or if she fell she needed help to get up-it was time.
Sounds liek with your girl you just have to find a pain reliever that will work with her. If youslip the MSM & gluc. in with her food it might help. MSM is a very good anti inflamatory. Have you tried the BL Soulution? I think Chris was trying it on her dog. It is supposed to be easier on the tummy.
I know my hubby had a dog that had hip displasia and the vet we had at the time did some injections into the hips for him and he got about 5 of them about a month in between. It kept him pain free for quite a few years. Wish I knew what they were. That dog lived to be 14 and finally he fell off the deck and was in agony, and we had to put him down.
Another thing you might want to try is a chiropractor, I bet your horse one would work on her. She sounds like she still has lots of life left to her.
Don't worry, enjoy her when it is time-you just "know."

[Cally]

I looked at the Buteless solution at the feed store, but the owner said it couldn't be used on dogs. Maybe he was wrong? There is only dosing on it for horses-how much do you give to a 160lb dog?

I'm doing some research and found that a lot of people are doing well with the Nutro Natural Choice Senior formula. It has MSM and Gluc in it. We used to use Nutro for Bozo, and it worked well until he started throwing up. I was told Nutro changed their ingredients without telling anyone. We took him off of it. But in looking at the ingredients now, I'm thinking it might work?

[Mary Ann]

Erika, Deramaxx is a chewable tablet. My dog's smaller, so I cut one in half right now, and in a few days he'll get one fourth. I'm so pleased at how it's working for Timmy. I also had the vet give him a shot of Adequan while waiting for the Cosequin to build up to therapeutic levels; I told him if he was a horse, I wouldn't hesitate.

Buteless has been thought to be easier on the stomach, but actually it's not. According to my holistic vet, it's about the same as bute. But the big deal about it is it's much more palatable. Bute is incredibly bitter. Fortunately, dogs don't have the issues with ulcers that people and horses do. Their digestive tracts are much tougher.

The owner of our barn has a Mastiff she's having treated by our chiro for HD. She doesn't know for sure that her dog has it, but she's wobbly sometimes. So, just to be safe.... Human chiros can't do acupuncture on animals in most states; it's considered by law a surgical procedure because it's invasive. Stinks, huh?

What a sweet old face! I wish you lots of luck with her.

[Littljoe]

My vet gave me a bottle of Rimadyl (or is it Rymadil?) to give my older dog Cody when his hips become uncomfortable. Unlike aspirin, it doesn't seem to cause any stomach upset whatsoever, and it's extremely effective. He rarely needs it as long as he gets his chondroitin and glucosamine; but if I don't have those, even for a few days, he stiffens right up and really needs the Rimadyl. When I give it to him, he usually feels better within the hour.

I'd ask your vet about using that instead of aspirin for the pain.

--LJ

[tlcbouv]

I had a St Bernard X with bad hips and as he got older and more crippled I set an action. when he could no longer climb the three steps to get back inside I would take him to the vet and have him put down. That's what I did. He'd been a great friend and I didn't want to see him suffer.
I have always been the one in our family (since I was 16 and driving) to make the decission and drive the dogs to the vet. Often it is a look in their eyes and I know it is time. They have their ways of letting you know.