Another dumb question...bits & chin straps

[donna]

When do you use a chin strap on a western headstall? Sam has a myler simple snaffle that we will be using at the clinic. Eggbut with a copper roller, comfort level 1.
Do I need a chin strap with this?
He also has another western bridle with a very short shank that is also a level one comfort snaffle.
Do I need a chin strap?
I feel silly, I've been riding English for so long that I've forgotten what is what...

[Idaho Linda]

You need a chin strap on the snaffle--it doesn't have to be tight, though. It is just to keep the bit from being pulled through his mouth.

You need a chin strap that is tighter (the bit should have come with directions on how tight--maybe 1-2 fingers room under it) on how to adjust the chin strap/curb strap with the short shanked bit.

[donna]

Thank you, I have a leather one on the shank, need to put one on the eggbutt...

[Kit]

With an egg butt snaffle, you don't need a strap. You'd use one with an O-ring to keep it from slipping thru the horses mouth. The "eggs" are supposed to stop that.
It's not really a "chin strap", which you can use, but just a thin strap works for that purpose.

For the shank bit, yes you do need s chin strap. Typically being able to slip 2 fingers in works, or is a good starting point.

[Mary Ann]

With any true snaffle, the only time you need a chin strap is when you have reason to believe that you might need to pull so hard that the bit could be pulled through the mouth-- like during a complete and outright panic and the horse needs to be spun around to keep it from running away with you when they're really really green. It will not engage with a plain snaffle when you use the reins for normal functions such as turns or stops.

Remember that the word "snaffle" means a direct action bit. The force you use with your hands is directly applied to the mouth. A bit with the word "curb" means that when pulled, the amount of force is multiplied through leverage, and the force goes to both the tongue or bars and the back of the jaw.

OTOH, when you ride in a leverage bit such as a low port curb, a broken mouth curb, kimberwicke, pelham, or a double bridle, you need a curb chain or strap for it to perform correctly. When you pull the ring at the bottom of the bit with the reins, the bit rotates back; and the curb chain should engage at the back of the chin when the bit reaches about a 45 degree turn. You can stick your fingers in there to make sure, if you like. Any more turn than that and it's too loose; which changes the behavior of the mouthpiece inside. The mouthpiece can be solid, or it can move in a variety of ways; but it's still a curb when it uses leverage to accomplish the signal.

The mildest is the curb strap, a piece of leather that buckles from side to side underneath the chin in western bits. They're made with rings and hooks for English bits, with a piece of leather in between. Then is the broad double link chain, which spreads the pressure over a wider area. Single link chains concentrate the pressure over a smaller area, and work better for horses that are rather dull to the signa. And then there are ones with rubber balls in them, spoon-like metal pieces, etc; which are rather harsh for most uses but used where absolute accuracy in turns at speed are needed, such as polo. When well trained, most horses do just fine with the leather strap or broad double chain.

I've long ago lost count of the number of horses I've ridden in snaffles, and I never ever use chin straps and have never gotten in trouble because of it. I start them in plain full cheeks so they are extremely difficult to pull through, and they add a signal to a broader area of the opposite side of the pull to help the horse learn to give to the pressure of the bit. Later they may go to eggbutts, dees or rings for the cheekpiece; but using straps with them is a western thang; the English folk don't find they have need. I believe that's just a tradition, since there's no reason to believe that English riders are any better or more thorough than western ones.

[Trailpal]

Watch how loose the chinstrap is. Being mainly English I didn't have any experience with putting a strap on a snaffle. My trainer was western, and that's how all his starter snaffles were set up - but he was used to working with bigger-headed horses. I had a Tiger mare with a refined face (she had an Arab grand-dam) and she managed to get the chinstrap caught in her lower lip. There was a momentary panic, nothing big but it was a little alarming to me. Silly thing was, I'd done tons of ground work with her and she knew how to carry/respond to a snaffle without the strap.

[donna]

Another clarification please......a curb bit is an unbroken bit with shanks, right? leverage
A snaffle bit (broken bit of some sort) is still a snaffle bit even if it has shanks, right? direct/lateral
There was a time I knew all this but I'm losing it in my old age and using the same English bridle with Mason for years it has all slipped away. It's true for me," if you don't use it, you lose it"

[snelson]

Any bit with leverage is not a snaffle...even with a broken mouthpiece.

[Reds]

Yep, what Sally said.

A snaffle can even be a solid mouth piece, so long as it doesn't have shanks

Let me also add (or reiterate if someone else mentioned it) that the reins on a snaffle bit would go above the chin strap. Reins on a leverage are below the chin strap, to engage the strap when the reins are pulled.

Technically if you are showing a snaffle bit horse and you have the chin strap between the reins and the chin, you're illegal, as you're able to use the strap as leverage.

[donna]

lol...here is another one, can you neck rein with a snaffle bit?

[ride4fun]

You can, but neck reining is advantage to a one piece bit as it will give some pressure on the bar on the side you are turning towards.

A broken mouth bit is going to lose most of that so the horse only has your seat, legs and the rein on his neck and perhaps a little bit pressure on a different part of his mouth from the rein your are lifting.

[Idaho Linda]

Let me refine my answer at the top. The curb strap on the snaffle was to keep the clinician happy--I knew you couldn't and wouldn't pull it through Sam's mouth.

Refined neck reining doesn't have much to do with the bit. It is subtle communication of just the rein on the neck. The slack does not need to come out of the rein on the finished horse. Chances are, the horse is responding to more subtle body cues as well--seat pressure, the slight rotation of your body, the movement of your hand, the change in your eyes and perhaps even your intent.

But, like R4F said, TRAINING the neck rein is better done in a one piece bit.

You can also do some of the training for neck reining with just a loop of stiff rope or wire around the neck of the horse. If you need to pull harder on that "rein", it doesn't pull on the head of the horse--which can be an advantage in the training. You can still have your reins and bit--it is just one more tool in the process. And, as the horse "gets it", you use less loop as the horse responds to the slight pressure of the reins on the neck (and other body cues.)

[Deleted]

That was fun to read through with everone chiming in and adding their bits and pieces of knowledge.

Nothing to add miss donna You got plenty of good info ;D

[klucas]

Hi, I have a short shank dogbone snaffle, can i use a curb strap with this? where do i attach it?

[rhonda]

do I need a chin strap with a bomber happy horse egg butt bit ?