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Post by kslongrider on May 11, 2008 7:57:19 GMT -5
Careful, thorough, consistant maintenance and storage practices will go a long way evening up the difference in the life expectancies between steel and aluminum trailers. Take a steel trailer, get the inside Rhino-lined, clean it out after use, wash it every spring after using it on salted winter roads and store it inside or at least under a roof and they will last a long time. For the difference in price between steel and aluminum you can build the building to store it in. I just sold a 40 y/o Trailet 4 horse steel trailer that looked like it was 6 or 8 y/o. Moved down from a 4 horse straight load to a 3 horse slant. The 3 horse is a '79 model Flying L and they've been out of business since then 80s. At our age, meaning Linda and I, any steel trailer we will own will outlast us so aluminum didn't even figure in. Also Melelio is correct on the weight comparison. Our steel trailer with a fiberglass roof weighs only 330 lbs more than an aluminum one of the same dimensions and options (both barebones models). Good luck and have fun shopping!! Barry, Kansas
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Post by Sheryl on May 11, 2008 10:12:47 GMT -5
Hil, I own that book - it was the one written by the Equispirit people. They don't say don't get aluminum. In fact, they talk about how much both steel and aluminum trailers have changed and improved. The way they frame the conversation is that there is good and bad to all designs, but seem to lean toward "composite" construction meaning something like a stronger steel frame, fiberglass room and aluminum skin.
Building a shelter is out of the question. I live in the suburbs and have no place to put it. I am pretty sure a trailer won't fit in my garage and I am not allowed nor have space to build a horse trailer covered parking. If I had a covered parking, I would go steel. Yes, they both need maintenance, but the steel skins need more to keep them looking good if they sit in the rain all winter long. Salt on the roads isn't generally a problem around here... it is that light, on again off again rain that is so common here from mid oct to mid june. I prefer to get something that requires less maintenance in our climate.
Of the ones I looked at, the Hawk probably fits the closest to the design the trailer bible mentions. One standard feature the Hawk has that I am not sure is worthy paying for.... there is a front horse door, for a 2 horse trailer. That way you can unload the front horse without unloading the rear one. I can see that in a bigger trailer, but in a 2h?
Anyway, all good discussions. I am not sure yet what I am going to do.
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Post by Laura on May 11, 2008 10:35:29 GMT -5
I'm trailer shopping right now too, so thank you all for the excellent info.
I remember Denise saying that her trailer still looks brand new, and all she does is wax it well once (or maybe twice - can't remember) a year.
We have a drier climate on this side of the state. I'll probably be getting a Trails West.
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Post by Sheryl on May 11, 2008 10:37:44 GMT -5
Okay guys, a follow up question. For those of you with larger horses, do you think they are more comfortable in a slant or straightload? Buster is 15.3H, but extra long... he wears an 82" blanket and you have seen that big sweet head of his. Actually, I am at a barn where "big" regular size horses (ie not warmblood or drafts) is the norm.
The Trailswest and Hawk standard width is a bit wider trailer, so the slant stall is slightly longer. Same with the one Circle J I was looking at (most circle Js are a bit narrower, more geared to the smaller qH or Arabs).
They had a typical straightload, with the manger, but it is extra big. I ruled that out, because I have a bias against the manger style. I know that Hawk and others make straightloads with the chest bar (no manger) and those are necessary for the big horses.
I think Buster is on the cusp, he will fit fine into the slant as long as I get the wider one. Just curious what you think.
The trailer seller said that she recommends that once you are in a 84" blanket and over 16H that you consider a straightload, although even then the bigger slants will work.
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Post by Yip on May 11, 2008 11:12:33 GMT -5
We have that book, and one like it written by Cherry Hill. Both are excellent!
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Post by Yip on May 11, 2008 11:18:33 GMT -5
Does Denise have alum. or steel? And is she on the drier side of the state?
We don't have covered parking for our truck yet let alone a trailer. We hope to build a garage next summer with an overhang on one side.
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Post by Kit on May 11, 2008 11:38:10 GMT -5
My sister has a Sundowner (okay she has 2) Her 2 horse slant is a mid 90s model (I think) and has no rust issues, or any problems with any of the welded spots. She had the roof insulated when she ordered it, so there is no condensation problems. It's parked outside and looks great.
I have a 1993 Circle J Conquest. It's got a little rust in a few places, but nothing horrible. The finish on it isn't as nice as on the Sundowner, but it gets the job done. It has a fiberglass roof, so no condensation. It was parked outside, but I got a "Costco carport" for it.
On the smaller trailers, alum. vs steel, the difference in weight isn't enough to really even bother with.
My sister horse is big, 15.3, wears an 82 blanket, and weighs over 1400lbs. And he barely fits in her Sundowner. When she hauls him, she usually leaves the divider open and just hauls one horse. I did the same when I hauled him in my trailer. If she does have to haul 2, she puts him in the back stall where there is a little more room. He fits better in her new trailer, as it's wider.
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Post by Sheryl on May 11, 2008 11:40:30 GMT -5
Denise has a nice steel trailer, it is about 8 years old. She is only about 10 miles from where my trailer will be parked - but i like to think that I get less rain, being further from the mountains. Her trailer is really nice, really a good trailer, but I know she has a leak to deal with. What I am saying is that as much as possible, eliminating that problem is good. I like that they have these solid composite roofs now. Seems much less likely to leak - no seams! So, in reading the articles on the equispirit site, they are saying that steel trailers don't rust anymore (well, I am kind of exageratting, but that is the gist of their message). The evidence parked in front of me everytime I go to the barn does not support that statement. BTW, even before factoring in delivery across the country, looks like the Equi-Spirit is 40-50% more expensive then other trailers. Very very nice though. Do you like the ramps? All of the horses in my trainer's program are trained to back out of a slant step down. Nobody is allowed to go out headfirst, because her 6 horse has a rear tack so they must be able to back out a looonggg ways.
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Post by KaLioMele on May 11, 2008 12:18:20 GMT -5
Sheryl, that book IS written by the Equispirit folks, but not at ALL propaganda for their trailers. Neva is a totally honest, non-partisan person. I've "known" her since probably 1995. Super lady, nice and honest people.
And on the "steel doesn't rust anymore" front, cars are made out of the same steel. Do you see them rusting like they used to? I have a Bee Trailer I bought spankin new in 2000. It's all steel, and I treat it like crap. No washing, no covers, no garage. I touch up some of the surface rust, but that's ALL it has after sitting out in weather.
AbsoLUTEly the good made steel trailers will not rust appreciably. The aluminum, on the other hand, will get stress cracks and other non repairable (or difficult) fractures and aluminum weaknesses. And, based on what I've read on the threads I suggested you read on COTH, they bigger the builder, NOT necessarily the safer. In fact, alot of those trailer companies have changed ownership and the quality had plummeted. The older Sundowners and such (pre 2000s) have always been said to be much higher quality than a brand new one off the lot.
And most of these trailer manufacturers are NOT willing to fix their mistakes without alot of pain.
I JUST about got a Trails West trailer rather than the Bee. Can't remember what swayed me to Bee, but the prices were in line, the features were as well. TW is closer to you, so you'd probaby get a sweet deal on one.
Aluminum scares the Bee-Je-hey-sus out of me. I won't ever own one. Ever.
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Post by Coyote on May 11, 2008 13:11:17 GMT -5
Mary Ann, you will need to have your trailer checked specifically at the places where the steel and the aluminum meet. It is a problem for Sundowner. There is a thread at COTH about it. I doesn't happen for a few years. One person posted about the failure of hers. After reading the thread, another poster took hers in to be checked and it was giving way, too. She had it repaired. I don't think the repair is a big deal, but you have to stay on top of it. I think these trailers were eight years old - at least the one was. As you know, I have a bigger problem with the Sundowners than that. I think this problem is manageable as long as you know about it.
Another good place to look for horse trailer information is Horse Trailer World. It's a great place to learn about trailers.
Neva's book is great, but it needs to be updated as it's many years old - unless there is a new edition that I've missed.
You can search Tom Sheve and find articles written by him comparing steel to aluminum.
When you say "skin", are you saying that there is an aluminum sheet over metal sheets? or simply that there is aluminum sides and steel frame? I thought aluminum "skins" was the former, but terminology sometimes changes.
I'll go with steel every time - but I don't live in WA or OR.
eta: I just went to equispirit website on the issue of "skin". Here is how they describe their trailers and this is what I think "skin" means:
"EquiSpirit is constructed with a heavy-gauge non-rusting galvanized steel frame and galvanealed steel interior walls, aircraft aluminum skin with Styrofoam insulation between the walls, one-piece reinforced fiberglass roof with molded steel framework, and fiberglass fenders."
Steel walls with aluminum exterior skin. That is different from aluminum walls. The bottom line from what I've read that Tom said in articles was "steel bends, aluminum breaks". I also don't like the aluminum welds on some aluminum trailers in that they cannot be inspected visually. They must be inspected with some piece of equipment that a person won't have. You won't know that it's weakened unless you take it into a repair shop/dealer. This has been a major problem for Sundowner.
Also, I like a ramp, but that's personal preference. I've heard from authoritative sources that ramps are safer.
There is a big difference in companies regarding the rusting of their trailers. That galvaneal process is better.
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Post by Mary Ann on May 11, 2008 14:54:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the heads up, Coyote. I'll keep my eye on it. This is my first Sundowner, and it had many safety features I liked. I also liked the rhino undercoating to limit rust on the frame, and it's coating the corrugated floor as well; and the aluminum skin is painted, so it doesn't corrode and need that muriatic acid wash every year. But I don't like pulling something that becomes iffy for safety; and if it becomes that, I'll get rid of it in a heartbeat. The dealership is close by and they're reputable people, and I'll see to it that it's maintained properly. I'm not likely to keep it more than about ten years though.
BTW, I pulled a Merhow before this one. I really loved that one too, as it was a very safe trailer. It had a ramp, which some horses got along with, and some didn't. It was often easier to teach wee babies to load with it, but some horses were really scared of it, especially if a hind foot would go off the side when unloading. The only way I would consider it safer is when you get the occasional horse who tries to unload and slips a hind leg underneath. Mine has a rubber bumper and is balanced pretty low to the ground, so it'd be pretty freak; it'd have to be on pavement with a shod horse that's not experienced. But it *could* happen.
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Post by pamz on May 11, 2008 15:11:36 GMT -5
This is what Joey's father (Clear Vision, ApHC) did to an aluminum 2006 Exiss Sport model trailer. I am very good friends with his owner, Bridget, and one of the reasons that I picked Vision to be Joey's dad was because of his extremely laid back personality. He was by no means acting up in the trailer, he simply lifted his head and it went THRU THE ROOF! This trailer was brand spanking new, it was only the third time it had been used and then it took nearly four months to get any help from Exiss. After a HUGE letter writing campaign, they did finally replace the trailer with an upgraded model, but it was a big fight. My advice, avoid aluminum, at least from Exiss! Here is the story Bridget put on her site about it. www.hdcappaloosas.com/exiss.html
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Post by KaLioMele on May 11, 2008 15:19:44 GMT -5
Ah, Pamz, I saw that whole debacle on COTH I think. Just another link in my scared-to-haul-aluminum chain. Here's hopefully a link to my trailer pics, from when I first got it. My horses are happy enough in it (though Mr. big black Angus just generally doesn't like trailers) www.flickr.com/photos/melelio/Oh, and to answer your question about slant vs. straight I think your guy sounds like he'd prefer a straight load. Mine is a slant. My guys are only 14.3 so they're fine in it.
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Post by Marci on May 11, 2008 16:12:25 GMT -5
Drool they are all so pretty. But you know my teeny little lain 2 horse that I slaved over last summer works just fine for me. As for keeping a trailer under cover what about those plastic tarp covered portable shelters? I know my friend kept her trailer under one of those. Its still standing too, even with all the high winds we get here in the winter. Heck I have two friends who use them for their horses shelter in a pasture. Just have to make sure you stake them down good. I think you can pick them up for under a couple hundred bucks. And think of all the good backing up practice you will get learning how to back into one of these.
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Post by Stephanie nli on May 11, 2008 16:16:55 GMT -5
The ramp on my Equispirit isn't steep at all. It is long and stable as well. Plus, I can lift it with one hand, lol. They have added safety features that I'm not sure if Hawk and Trailet have, though I think they're close to being the same trailer.
Equispirit is made with two individual doors at the back that close before the ramp is raised. They started making this a mandatory part of their design after a friend's mom was kicked in the head raising a ramp where just the top half of the trailer was doors. This way the horse's have no chance of kicking you in the head.
It has the regular door handles to the horses, but also outside latches that can only be undone from outside so that a horse can't kick its way out if something goes wrong and it turns itself around.
Everything inside the trailer can be taken apart completely, great for emergencies. And I think that the horses can fit through the side doors if it was really urgent. We opted for the extra shoulder window for a little more light and the horses love it.
I can't think of the other specific stuff that the man that delivered the trailer went over, but there were a couple of other points. Like I said, Trailet and Hawk have borrowed a lot of their design from Equispirit, I'm not sure how similar the materials are, but I know that the basic layout/features are.
The people at Equispirit are super nice. Oh, and the front horse door, Equispirit offers that too, I think that's in case of emergency where you can't get the ramp down. Or if you need to get to the horse on the left but it's door had something happen and you can't get it open.
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